Daf 91b
גְּמָ' אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל לְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי טַרְפוֹן הַמִּתְנַדֵּב שֶׁמֶן קוֹמְצוֹ וּשְׁיָרָיו נֶאֱכָלִין מַאי טַעְמָא אָמַר קְרָא קָרְבַּן מִנְחָה מְלַמֵּד שֶׁמִּתְנַדְּבִין שֶׁמֶן וְכִי מִנְחָה מָה מִנְחָה קוֹמְצָהּ וּשְׁיָרֶיהָ נֶאֱכָלִין אַף שֶׁמֶן קוֹמְצוֹ וּשְׁיָרָיו נֶאֱכָלִין
אָמַר רַבִּי זֵירָא אַף אֲנַן נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אִם רָאִיתָ שֶׁמֶן שֶׁמִּתְחַלֵּק בַּעֲזָרָה אִי אַתָּה צָרִיךְ לִשְׁאוֹל מַהוּ אֶלָּא מוֹתַר רְקִיקֵי מִנְחוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלוֹג שֶׁמֶן שֶׁל מְצוֹרָע שֶׁאֵין מִתְנַדְּבִין מִכְּלָל דְּמַאן דְּאָמַר מִתְנַדְּבִין מִתְחַלֵּק
אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי אֵימָא סֵיפָא אִם רָאִיתָ שֶׁמֶן שֶׁנִּיתָּן עַל גַּבֵּי אִישִּׁים אִי אַתָּה צָרִיךְ לִשְׁאוֹל מַהוּ אֶלָּא מוֹתַר רְקִיקֵי מִנְחַת כֹּהֲנִים וּמִנְחַת כֹּהֵן מָשִׁיחַ שֶׁאֵין מִתְנַדְּבִין שֶׁמֶן מִכְּלָל דִּלְמַאן דְּאָמַר מִתְנַדֵּב כּוּלָּן לָאִישִּׁים לְאַבָּיֵי קַשְׁיָא רֵישָׁא לְרַבִּי זֵירָא קַשְׁיָא סֵיפָא
בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרַבִּי זֵירָא רֵישָׁא בְּשִׁירַיִם סֵיפָא בְּקוֹמֶץ אֶלָּא לְאַבָּיֵי קַשְׁיָא תְּנָא רֵישָׁא אַטּוּ סֵיפָא
בִּשְׁלָמָא סֵיפָא תָּנֵי מִשּׁוּם רֵישָׁא אֶלָּא רֵישָׁא מִשּׁוּם סֵיפָא מִי תָּנֵי אִין אָמְרִי בְּמַעְרְבָא תְּנָא רֵישָׁא מִשּׁוּם סֵיפָא
תָּא שְׁמַע יַיִן כְּדִבְרֵי רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא לַסְּפָלִים שֶׁמֶן כְּדִבְרֵי רַבִּי טַרְפוֹן לָאִישִּׁים מַאי לָאו מִדְּיַיִן כּוּלּוֹ לַסְּפָלִים שֶׁמֶן כּוּלּוֹ לָאִישִּׁים מִידֵּי אִירְיָא הָא כִּדְאִיתַהּ וְהָא כִּדְאִיתַהּ
אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא כְּתַנָּאֵי שֶׁמֶן לֹא יִפְחוֹת מִלּוֹג רַבִּי אוֹמֵר שְׁלֹשֶׁת לוּגִּין בְּמַאי קָמִיפַּלְגִי אַמְרוּהָ רַבָּנַן קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב פָּפָּא דּוּן מִינַּהּ וּמִינַּהּ דּוּן מִינַּהּ וְאוֹקֵי בְּאַתְרַהּ אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ
דְּרַבָּנַן סָבְרִי מָה מִנְחָה מִתְנַדְּבִין אַף שֶׁמֶן מִתְנַדְּבִין [וּמִינַּהּ מָה מִנְחָה לוֹג שֶׁמֶן אַף כָּאן לוֹג שֶׁמֶן וּמָה מִנְחָה קוֹמְצָהּ וּשְׁיָרֶיהָ נֶאֱכָלִין אַף שֶׁמֶן קוֹמְצוֹ וּשְׁיָרָיו נֶאֱכָלִין
וְאִידַּךְ מִמִּנְחָה מָה מִנְחָה מִתְנַדְּבִין אַף שֶׁמֶן מִתְנַדְּבִין וְאוֹקֵי בְּאַתְרַהּ] כִּנְסָכִים מָה נְסָכִים שְׁלֹשֶׁת לוּגִּין [אַף שֶׁמֶן שְׁלֹשָׁ[ה] לוּגִּין וּמָה נְסָכִים כּוּלָּן לַסְּפָלִין] אַף שֶׁמֶן (כּוּלָּן) [כּוּלּוֹ] לָאִישִּׁים
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב פָּפָּא לְאַבָּיֵי אִי מִמִּנְחָה מַיְיתֵי לַהּ [רַבִּי] דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא דּוּן מִינַּהּ וּמִינַּהּ אֶלָּא רַבִּי מֵאֶזְרָח גָּמַר לַהּ
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב נָתָן לְרַב פָּפָּא מִי מָצֵית אָמְרַתְּ הָכִי וְהָתַנְיָא קָרְבַּן מִנְחָה מְלַמֵּד שֶׁמִּתְנַדְּבִין שֶׁמֶן וְכַמָּה שְׁלֹשָׁה לוּגִּין וּמַאן שָׁמְעַתְּ לֵיהּ דְּאָמַר שְׁלֹשָׁה לוּגִּין רַבִּי הִיא וְקָא מַיְיתֵי לַהּ מִקָּרְבָּן אֲמַר לֵיהּ אִי תַּנְיָא תַּנְיָא
אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל הַמִּתְנַדֵּב יַיִן מֵבִיא וּמְזַלְּפוֹ עַל גַּבֵּי הָאִישִּׁים מַאי טַעְמָא אָמַר קְרָא וְיַיִן תַּקְרִיב לַנֶּסֶךְ חֲצִי הַהִין אִשֵּׁה רֵיחַ נִיחֹחַ לַה' וְהָא קָא מְכַבֵּי כִּיבּוּי בְּמִקְצָת לָא שְׁמֵיהּ כִּיבּוּי
אִינִי וְהָאָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ הַמּוֹרִיד גַּחֶלֶת מֵעַל גַּבֵּי הַמִּזְבֵּחַ וְכִיבָּהּ חַיָּיב דְּלֵיכָּא אֶלָּא הַאי אִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא כִּיבּוּי דְּמִצְוָה שָׁאנֵי
תָּא שְׁמַע דְּתָנָא רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר בֶּן יַעֲקֹב כְּלַפֵּי שֶׁנִּתְּנָה תּוֹרָה לִתְרוֹם יָכוֹל יְכַבֶּה וְיִתְרוֹם אָמְרַתְּ לֹא יְכַבֶּה שָׁאנֵי הָתָם אֶפְשָׁר דְּיָתֵיב וְנָטַר
תָּא שְׁמַע יַיִן כְּדִבְרֵי רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא לַסְּפָלִים שֶׁמֶן כְּדִבְרֵי רַבִּי טַרְפוֹן לָאִישִּׁים וְעוֹד תַּנְיָא יַיִן [לַ]נֶּסֶךְ לַסְּפָלִים אוֹ אֵינוֹ אֶלָּא לָאִישִּׁים אָמַרְתָּ לֹא יְכַבֶּה
לָא קַשְׁיָא הָא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה הָא רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לְמֵימְרָא דִּשְׁמוּאֵל כְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ וְהָאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל מְכַבִּין גַּחֶלֶת שֶׁל מַתֶּכֶת בִּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים בִּשְׁבִיל שֶׁלֹּא יִזּוֹקוּ בָּהּ רַבִּים
GEMARA. Samuel said: According to R. Tarfon, when a man donates oil [by itself], he removes a fistful, burns it [on the altar], and its residue is eaten. What is the reason? — Scripture saith, [And when any one bringeth] a meal-offering: (1) this teaches that one can donate oil [by itself], (2) and that it [an offering of oil] is like a meal-offering: as a fistful is taken of a meal-offering and the rest is eaten, (3) so the oil: one takes a fistful off and the rest of it is eaten. R. Zera observed, We too have learnt thus: R. SIMEON SAID: IF YOU SEE OIL BEING SHARED OUT IN THE TEMPLE COURT, YOU NEED NOT ASK WHAT IT IS, FOR IT IS THE RESIDUE OF THE WAFERS [REKIKIM] OF THE ISRAELITES’ MEAL-OFFERINGS OR OF THE LEPER'S LOG OF OIL... FOR MEN CANNOT OFFER OIL [ALONE]: hence it follows that on the view that it can be offered, it can be shared out! (4) — Said Abaye to him: Then consider the next clause: IF YOU SEE OIL POURED ON THE FIRES, YOU NEED NOT ASK WHAT IT IS, FOR IT IS THE RESIDUE OF THE WAFERS OF PRIESTS’ MEALOFFERINGS OR OF THE ANOINTED PRIEST'S MEAL-OFFERING, FOR MEN CANNOT OFFER OIL [ALONE]: hence it follows that on the view that it can be offered, the whole of it is a fire offering. Thus the first clause presents a difficulty on Abaye's view, while the last clause presents a difficulty on R. Zera's view. As for R. Zera, it is well: the first clause (5) refers to the residue, while the last clause refers to the fistful. But on Abaye's view there is a difficulty? — The first clause is taught on account of the last clause. (6) As for saying that a second clause it taught on account of a first clause, that is well; but does one teach a first clause on account of a second clause? (7) — Yes: they said in the West [Palestine]: The first clause is taught on account of the second clause. Come and hear: Wine, in R. Akiba's view, is for the basins; oil, in R. Tarfon's view, is for the fires. (8) Now surely, since the whole of the wine is for basins, the whole of the oil is for burning? (9) — Why choose to say thus: each is conditioned by its own law. (10) R. Papa said: (11) This is dependent on Tannaim: [When one donates] oil, he must bring not less than a log; Rabbi said: Three logs. Wherein do they differ? — The scholars stated before R. Papa: They differ as to whether [we say]: Judge from it and [all] from it; or, judge from it and place the deduction on its own basis. (12) The Rabbis hold: ‘Judge from it and [all] from it’: as a meal-offering can be donated, so can oil be donated; ‘and [all] from it’: as a meal-offering [requires] a log of oil, (13) so here too (14) a log of oil [is required]; and as a meal-offering, a fistful thereof is removed, and the rest is eaten, so the oil [alone], a fistful thereof is removed and the rest is eaten. And the other [learns] from a meal-offering: as a meal-offering is donated, so is oil donated; ‘but place it on its own basis’, viz., it is like a drink-offering [of wine]: (15) as a drink-offering consists of three logs, (16) so oil consists of three logs; and as the whole of a drink-offering is for basins, so the oil is altogether for the fires. R. Papa observed to Abaye: If Rabbi inferred it from a meal-offering, then all would agree that you judge from it and [all] from it. Rabbi, however, deduces it from ‘home-born’. (17) Said R. Huna the son of R. Nathan to R. Papa: Can you say thus? Surely it was taught: ‘A mealoffering’: this teaches that oil [alone] can be donated? And how much? Three logs. Now, whom do you know to maintain [that it must be] three logs? Rabbi; yet he deduces it from a meal-offering! — If it was taught, it was taught, he replied. (18) Samuel said: When one donates wine, he brings it and sprinkles it on the fires. What is the reason? Scripture saith, And thou shalt present for the drink-offering half a Hin of wine, for an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the Lord. (19) But he extinguishes [the fires]? (20) — Partial extinguishing (21) is not called extinguishing. But that is not so, for surely R. Nahman said in Rabbah b. Abbuha's name: If one removes a coal from the altar and extinguishes it, he is culpable? — That is when there is none but that [coal]. Alternatively, extinguishing as [part of] a religious rite is different. (22) Come and hear, for R. Eliezer b. Jacob taught: Since Scripture authorized the taking up [of the ashes], you might think that one can extinguish [the embers] and take [them] up; but you must say that one may not extinguish! (23) — There it is different, for one can sit and wait. (24) Come and hear: Wine, in R. Akiba's view, is for the bowls; oil, in R. Tarfon's view, is for the fires. (25) Moreover, it was taught: The wine of a drink-offering is for the bowls. Yet perhaps it is not so, but rather for the fires? Say, he must not extinguish! (26) — There is no difficulty: One agrees with R. Judah; the other with R. Simeon. (27) Are we to say that Samuel agrees with R. Simeon? Surely Samuel said: One may extinguish a lump of fiery metal in the street, that it should not harm the public, (28)
(1). ↑ Lev. II, 1.
(2). ↑ The Heb. Is מנחה קרבן of which קרבן) an offering) is superfluous, since מנחה itself denotes the offering, and moreover קריב bringeth, is of the same root as קרבן and implies it. Hence it is understood to include even an offering of oil alone, without flour. מנחה ,generally rendered meal-offering, simply means a gift, of anything, although it is usually applied to offerings of flour.)
(3). ↑ Ibid. 2f.
(4). ↑ R. Simeon maintains that one need not ask what it is, i.e., whether it is a meal-offering in itself, because such cannot be donated. Hence he who holds that it can be donated maintains that it might happen that such itself is shared out; whence it follows that it is not altogether burnt on the altar.
(5). ↑ Which implies that oil, when donated by itself, is shared out among the priests.
(6). ↑ For the sake of symmetry and parallelism. The first clause, IF YOU SEE OIL BEING SHARED OUT IN THE TEMPLE COURT, is irrelevant to the controversy as to whether oil can be donated or not, for even if it could be donated, it would still not be shared out to the priests and so this oil, which was being shared out to the priests could only be the residue, as the Mishnah explains, on all views. But it is taught merely as a parallel to the second clause referring to a fire-offering, where it is only on the view that oil cannot be donated that one need not doubt, for on the view that oil can be donated, one might doubt what this oil is, since a votive offering of oil too is burnt on the altar.
(7). ↑ It is logical that when one clause has already been taught, a second is added for the sake of parallelism. But is it logical that an earlier clause should be added, before there is anything which it can parallel?
(8). ↑ R. Akiba holds (Men. 104b) that wine can be offered by itself, but not oil. When such wine is offered, it is to be put in basins or beakers, as a drink-offering, but it is not sprinkled on the fires. R. Tarfon agrees in this; R. Akiba's name, however, is mentioned in contrast to the next clause, which is only according to R. Tarfon, since R. Akiba holds that oil alone cannot be donated.
(9). ↑ When such is offered by itself. This contradicts Samuel.
(10). ↑ Though the whole of the wine is for basins, the whole of the oil need not be for burning.
(11). ↑ Sh.M. deletes this.
(12). ↑ I.e., whether an analogy must be carried through on all points, so that the case deduced agrees throughout with the case from which the deduction has started; or whether the deduction won by analogy be regulated by the rules of the original case (Jast.).
(13). ↑ V. Lev. XIV, 10.
(14). ↑ When oil alone is donated.
(15). ↑ Which is donated by itself. It is more logical to liken it to a drink-offering than to the ordinary meal-offering of which oil is only a part.
(16). ↑ As deduced in Men. 73b.
(17). ↑ Num. XV, 13; V. Men. 73b.
(18). ↑ I must accept it.
(19). ↑ Ibid. 10. ‘For an offering made by fire’ implies that it is sprinkled on same.
(20). ↑ Whereas Scripture says, Fire shall be kept burning on the altar continually; thou shalt not extinguish it (Lev. VI, 6).
(21). ↑ This could only extinguish a little.
(22). ↑ When he sprinkles the wine, he performs a religious rite.
(23). ↑ The var. lec. is preferable: say, however, (it is written), thou shalt not extinguish it. — Thus one may not extinguish even in the performance of a religious rite.
(24). ↑ Until they go out.
(25). ↑ Thus wine is not for the fires.
(26). ↑ Cf n. 1.
(27). ↑ These scholars dispute in Shab. 41b about an unintentional act on the Sabbath: R. Judah forbids, while R. Simeon permits it. Here too, the extinguishing is unintentional: the Baraithas which rule that the wine may not be sprinkled on the fires agree with R. Judah; whereas Samuel agrees with R. Simeon.
(28). ↑ Metal does not really burn, but throws off fiery sparks when hot. The prohibition of extinguishing (on the Sabbath, to which this refers) does not apply in this case by Biblical law at all, save by Rabbinical law; hence where general damage may ensue the Rabbis waived their prohibition.
(1). ↑ Lev. II, 1.
(2). ↑ The Heb. Is מנחה קרבן of which קרבן) an offering) is superfluous, since מנחה itself denotes the offering, and moreover קריב bringeth, is of the same root as קרבן and implies it. Hence it is understood to include even an offering of oil alone, without flour. מנחה ,generally rendered meal-offering, simply means a gift, of anything, although it is usually applied to offerings of flour.)
(3). ↑ Ibid. 2f.
(4). ↑ R. Simeon maintains that one need not ask what it is, i.e., whether it is a meal-offering in itself, because such cannot be donated. Hence he who holds that it can be donated maintains that it might happen that such itself is shared out; whence it follows that it is not altogether burnt on the altar.
(5). ↑ Which implies that oil, when donated by itself, is shared out among the priests.
(6). ↑ For the sake of symmetry and parallelism. The first clause, IF YOU SEE OIL BEING SHARED OUT IN THE TEMPLE COURT, is irrelevant to the controversy as to whether oil can be donated or not, for even if it could be donated, it would still not be shared out to the priests and so this oil, which was being shared out to the priests could only be the residue, as the Mishnah explains, on all views. But it is taught merely as a parallel to the second clause referring to a fire-offering, where it is only on the view that oil cannot be donated that one need not doubt, for on the view that oil can be donated, one might doubt what this oil is, since a votive offering of oil too is burnt on the altar.
(7). ↑ It is logical that when one clause has already been taught, a second is added for the sake of parallelism. But is it logical that an earlier clause should be added, before there is anything which it can parallel?
(8). ↑ R. Akiba holds (Men. 104b) that wine can be offered by itself, but not oil. When such wine is offered, it is to be put in basins or beakers, as a drink-offering, but it is not sprinkled on the fires. R. Tarfon agrees in this; R. Akiba's name, however, is mentioned in contrast to the next clause, which is only according to R. Tarfon, since R. Akiba holds that oil alone cannot be donated.
(9). ↑ When such is offered by itself. This contradicts Samuel.
(10). ↑ Though the whole of the wine is for basins, the whole of the oil need not be for burning.
(11). ↑ Sh.M. deletes this.
(12). ↑ I.e., whether an analogy must be carried through on all points, so that the case deduced agrees throughout with the case from which the deduction has started; or whether the deduction won by analogy be regulated by the rules of the original case (Jast.).
(13). ↑ V. Lev. XIV, 10.
(14). ↑ When oil alone is donated.
(15). ↑ Which is donated by itself. It is more logical to liken it to a drink-offering than to the ordinary meal-offering of which oil is only a part.
(16). ↑ As deduced in Men. 73b.
(17). ↑ Num. XV, 13; V. Men. 73b.
(18). ↑ I must accept it.
(19). ↑ Ibid. 10. ‘For an offering made by fire’ implies that it is sprinkled on same.
(20). ↑ Whereas Scripture says, Fire shall be kept burning on the altar continually; thou shalt not extinguish it (Lev. VI, 6).
(21). ↑ This could only extinguish a little.
(22). ↑ When he sprinkles the wine, he performs a religious rite.
(23). ↑ The var. lec. is preferable: say, however, (it is written), thou shalt not extinguish it. — Thus one may not extinguish even in the performance of a religious rite.
(24). ↑ Until they go out.
(25). ↑ Thus wine is not for the fires.
(26). ↑ Cf n. 1.
(27). ↑ These scholars dispute in Shab. 41b about an unintentional act on the Sabbath: R. Judah forbids, while R. Simeon permits it. Here too, the extinguishing is unintentional: the Baraithas which rule that the wine may not be sprinkled on the fires agree with R. Judah; whereas Samuel agrees with R. Simeon.
(28). ↑ Metal does not really burn, but throws off fiery sparks when hot. The prohibition of extinguishing (on the Sabbath, to which this refers) does not apply in this case by Biblical law at all, save by Rabbinical law; hence where general damage may ensue the Rabbis waived their prohibition.
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